Template talk:Artwork/Archiv/2022

This template is stripping credit.

File:Alphonse Mucha - Poster for Victorien Sardou's Gismonda starring Sarah Bernhardt.jpg was converted from {{Information}} to {{Artwork}}, and the parameters were not changed, but something is breaking it. Here's what's being passed to the "Artist" field:

|Author={{Creator:Alfons Mucha}} Restored by [[User:Adam Cuerden|Adam Cuerden]]

But the only thing actually shown is the creator template for Mucha. The rest of the credit line is removed.

This is... obviously broken. You can't just strip credit from people. What on earth is happening here? How many files are affected? Who thought this was a good idea?

This needs fixed urgently. Adam Cuerden (talk) 16:15, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

According to this template's documentation the creator template belongs into the |Artist= parameter. However, to avoid mistakes as the one described by Adam Cuerden, I think it wouldn't hurt to enable a templated creator plus additional text in |Author= too. De728631 (talk) 16:35, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

There are cases with more than one creator, and it's going to cause major issues for giving credit if we go down that route. Especially given that the parameters are intended to be compatible with the {{Information}} template. Adam Cuerden (talk) 16:38, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Indeed. That is why we need the ability to add multiple templated and written creators in the Author slot. De728631 (talk) 16:43, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

@Adam Cuerden: Please take it easy on the drama and don't try to blame people. No need for that. We're all trying to make Commons a better place and sometimes something breaks. Just report it and it will get fixed. You would us very happy if you could use {{Artwork}} for your new uploads. That way you also reduce the risk of conversions.

I think the logic in Module:Artwork that looks for the creator template matches on {{Creator:Alfons Mucha}} and just returns.

In a case like your case, I think the remaining text should be used to fill the author field like the manual edit. It should be flagged by a tracker category so these cases can be found and data can be improved. @Jarekt: can you have look? Multichill (talk) 17:13, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

I think the big problem is that if the data needs manual reworking when converting from {{Information}} to {{Artwork}}, when there's a push to do that, and no warning that it might break... Well, it's going to break in a lot of cases, isn't it? One can suggest workarounds, but it's not like I'm the one deciding to use {{Artwork}} on ancient files I've uploaded.

And just putting things in a second field is kind of problematic in itself: Imagine converting File:George Romney - William_Shakespeare - The Tempest Act I, Scene 1.jpg to this template. Even if you're trying to divy them up between the two categories, surely the engraver has to count as a co-artist?

If Artwork is meant to be a simple conversion from the Information template - and it presumably is - it needs to be 100% compatible.

But I do apologise if any blame came up. I simply don't understand why any preprocessing of the fields would ever be valuable in cases like this: What if you needed to provide sources for why it's a particular artist? What if there's multiple artists? Is there any processing to do not already handled by {{Creator}} in the first place? It just feels like a bizarre decision to have a situation where these kind of things can get cut out, but I'm absolutely sure it wasn't a malicious one. Adam Cuerden (talk) 17:59, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Actually the |Author= field already accepts both the creator template (or multiple instances of it) and additional text. But when a Wikidata ID is added, the Author parameter gets overwritten while "Artist" is displayed as it was entered. See the series of edits in my sandbox starting here. De728631 (talk) 22:49, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Hello everyone, current state of File:Alphonse Mucha - Poster for Victorien Sardou's Gismonda starring Sarah Bernhardt.jpg is a misuse of {{Artwork}}. |artist= and |author= are dedicated for the artists and authors of the object or artwork depicted, not for the people involved in the creation of the depiction or photo of the original object or artwork. In this case {{Art Photo}} should be used and the information about the restoration should go to {{Art Photo}}'s |photographer= or |source= fields. Best, --Marsupium (talk) 23:14, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

I'm going to put this gently, but if you start stripping credit from Commons' contributors, saying their work isn't good enough to be counted as an author, where literally days of work goes into their contributions, that's how you kill off contributions. Adam Cuerden (talk) 01:16, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

What is happening is that {{Artwork|Wikidata=Q60591741|Author={{Creator:Alfons Mucha}} Restored by [[User:Adam Cuerden|Adam Cuerden]] }} pulls all the data from the Wikidata including artist={{Creator:Alfons Mucha}} field. but than notices that there is already "author" field with creator template for Alfons Mucha in line 1466 duplicate field is dropped and file is added to Category:Artworks with the same artist and author for human review. The logic only compares Creator templates. The issue could be manually fixed by replacing "Author" with "Artist". {{Artwork|Wikidata=Q60591741|Artist={{Creator:Alfons Mucha}} Restored by [[User:Adam Cuerden|Adam Cuerden]] }} gives

Alphonse Mucha: Gismonda
Artist	Alphonse Mucha  (1860–1939)       Alternative names Alphonse Maria Mucha Description -Czechoslovak poster artist, lithographer, photographer, graphic designer, painter and postage stamp designer Czechoslovak photographer, painter, illustrator and patriot. Apart from his artistic production he was an advocate for the unification of Czechoslovakia for which he designed the first banknotes in 1918. Date of birth/death 24 July 1860  14 July 1939  Location of birth/death Ivančice Prague Work location Paris (1888–); Prague (1911–); Vienna; Munich; Mikulov  Authority file : Q146691 VIAF: 54279412 ISNI: 0000000108576125 ULAN: 500030136 LCCN: n79060686 NLA: 36237481 MusicBrainz: 36f605eb-a378-447e-9f02-0b0305ef6172 WGA: m/mucha Open Library: OL480133A GND: 118737260 SELIBR: 194408 SUDOC: 02727361X BNF: 12955188r NDL: 00450724 BIBSYS: 90384388 NKC: jk01082370 SBN: VEAV043128 BNE: XX1183159 CiNii: DA00046817 NLP: a0000001655831 KulturNav: 6790b41b-5b73-42ac-a74f-9d763e41077d RKD: 58106 J9U: 987007279864905171 Koninklijke: 068677634 NLK: KAC200702964 WorldCat artist QS:P170,Q146691 Restored by Adam Cuerden
Title	Gismonda label QS:Len,"Gismonda" label QS:Lja,"ジスモンダ"
Object type	lithograph
Genre	poster
Date	1895
Medium	paper
Dimensions	height: 217.9 cm (85.7 in) ; width: 75 cm (29.5 in)  dimensions QS:P2048,+217.9U174728 dimensions QS:P2049,+75U174728
Collection	Sakai   Native name 堺市  Parent institution Keihanshin  Location Osaka Prefecture , Japan Coordinates 34° 34′ 24″ N, 135° 28′ 59″ E   Established 1 April 1889  Authority file : Q193428 VIAF: 159441160 LCCN: n80020475 OSM: 358759 GND: 4677073-2 NDL: 00262728 WorldCat

We can also come up with some better logic of in which files we should suppress duplicate author/artist and where to keep both. --Jarekt (talk) 04:57, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

I think I get it, it's some sort of autofill from Wikidata? Clever, although how does it handle, for example, two-person collaborations, say, Brady-Handy images or Doré's assistants? Adam Cuerden (talk) 06:10, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Yes, with this autofill you no longer have to type in all the painting info in each image, just add it to Wikidata and link. It should handle multi-author artworks just fine, but don't trust my find some and check. --Jarekt (talk) 04:50, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. Jarekt alt (talk) 18:43, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

line 1485

Hi, I've observed the error message "Lua error in Module:Artwork at line 1485: attempt to get length of field '?' (a nil value)." in several files and so I suppose it is a systematic error of the template. But I don't know how to fix it. Greetz! Bukk (talk) 09:53, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

See Module_talk:Artwork#line_1485:_attempt_to_get_length_of_field_'?'_(a_nil_value). Multichill (talk) 11:41, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. Jarekt alt (talk) 18:43, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

I cannot add a description

Actually I should here first, not at Village_pump/Technical. Sorry for a dup then:

Breaking my mind over it... For File:1665 Girl with a Pearl Earring.jpg trying to add a Russian part to the Description section, exactly like that: {{ru|1=«[[w:ru:Девушка с жемчужной серёжкой (картина)|Девушка с жемчужной серёжкой]]», [[w:ru:Вермеер, Ян|Ян Вермеер]], около 1665 года.}} - already reverted, see page history. But after that all descriptions (including mine) do disappear - except the English one. What possibly am I doing wrong? NeoLexx (talk) 14:42, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

The Russian description is there. Have you looked at your current language setting for Commons? If it is in English, the English description will appear, if it is set to "Deutsch" the German description will. Wuselig (talk) 22:42, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Looks like this is resolved to me. If not please remove the following template! Thanks, --Marsupium (talk) 17:18, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. Marsupium (talk) 17:18, 19 December 2023 (UTC)